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Throwing Good Money After Bad

Doc Maher explains why this is a losing strategy.

 

 

AllStars_Maher_v04.jpg

 

 

Thanks for the comments on my prior post Moving Your Stop and Taking Profits, which was the third part in a detailed series on Swing Trading. In the post below I hope to answer those concerns. To catch up on the other segments, please read Part 1: Swing Trading with Stocks followed by Part 2: Managing Your Swing Trade. A post on swing trading options will be posted soon.

 

 

THE PLAY - Buy Long Stock on a Pullback

long_stock_w_border.jpg

 

 

ALL-STAR COMMENTARY

As I noted, moving stops is more of an art than a science. We can never know if a stop position will be too close or too loose until after we see what happens in the future. A trailing stop is a perfectly reasonable way to go but you are confronted with the same fundamental problem. That is, how close do I put the stop?

There will always be times when a stop takes us out of a trade that eventually would have been profitable or more profitable. That doesn't mean that I am against stops. We can never get the last penny of profit out of a trade, so don't even try.

No one likes to take a loss but they are inevitable. No one makes money on every trade. I had a very old and wise trader once tell me that: ‘when you get to the point that your last trade doesn't affect your next trade then you have made it as a trader.' I asked him if he knew anyone like that and he said no. Me neither. But I have learned that when things go against me, I get out, take the loss and live to trade another day.

The big problem is there are too many times that I see people riding stocks down thinking (and later hoping) that they are going to turn back up. They even add to the position as the stock is falling. I never understood this strategy often called, "dollar cost averaging". I guess it means that I paid too much for the stock in the first place so if I add shares at a lower price that it is going to help some how. Or, I won't have lost as much on the first batch I bought. But in reality, of course the shares have lost and buying more won't change that, like throwing good money after bad. 'Bad money' is when the original trade is losing, but we all know losing trades come with the territory. 'Good money' is when you already know the original trade is wrong, yet you continue to add capital anyway.

I have had students show me positions that they have held for a very long time and they want to add to the position as it is dropping to lower their costs. We look at the chart and I say ‘would you buy this stock now?' Of course they say ‘No, it looks like we should short it.' My response is "Great, problem is you are long and you want to get longer." If you wouldn't open a position on a stock because it is falling, why would you add to that position? To me, when you add to a position it's another trade, not a continuation of the first.

I would rather get out and wait until the stock starts to go back up. If I still like it I can get back in. If it doesn't come back, no problem I'm out of it at a planned loss. If it comes back I can re-enter the position when it looks like it's trending my way again. If I get back in at a price that is at or below where I got out, great I lowered my cost. If not then it doesn't matter because each trade is a new trade and I don't want to let the last trade affect my next trade.

 

--Doc Maher

"Income Trader"

DocMaher Trading LLC

All-Star Commentator

 

Doc's previous posts: Stay out of Trouble and Moving Your Stop and Taking Profits

For a list of recent All-Star blogs, please click here.

 

Options involve risk and are not suitable for all investors.

Please read Characteristics and Risks of Standardized Options.

 

Any strategies discussed and examples using actual securities and price data are for educational and illustrative purposes only and do not imply a recommendation or solicitation to buy or sell a particular security or to engage in any particular investment strategy. In reading content in the Community, you may gain ideas about when, where, and how to invest your money. Although you may discover new ideas or rationale that may be compelling, you must ultimately decide whether or not to put your own money at risk. Consider the following when making an investment decision: your financial and tax situation, your risk profile, and transaction costs.

 

Jonathan F. Maher, PhD has a professional business relationship with TradeKing.

 

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corbinb2

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corbinb2

I can't say that I completely agree with your logic here or at least the presentation of it. Now first let me say that yes, losing is an inevitable part of trading, but there are many factors such as the current or any economy for one, that can throw standard beliefs about stock valuation out the window and cause a stock to drop in price. In many cases you really don't even know a trade is 'bad' until after the fact.

 

You have to do your homework of course and determine these things for yourself, but I see nothing wrong with purchasing stock again after an original purchase has started to lose money and continue to hold the first lot. When to do so is another story, but there are distinct advantages to this strategy of which only one is dollar cost averaging.

 

What a stock is or should be valued at changes constantly, and while there may be value or least less 'headaches' in taking the loss and moving on, there are equally as many opportunities to generate profits with additional purchases at lower levels. The key to this is tracking each purchase as it's own lot. Simply because an initial trade starts to look bad does not mean that a following purchase at a lower price is also bad. As you stated, you need to evaluate the stock at the time and make that determination, but there is an additional advantage that is thrown into the mix when you already hold the stock at a higher price in that you can lower your overall cost of the position. This should not be the sole reason to buy again, but it is most definitely a benefit to be considered.

 

In fact, why wouldn't a trader use all tools available to them to achieve a profit? Additional buys at lower prices can be turned into profits and thereby offset and even eliminate losses on the initial 'bad' trade. As with any strategy, it needs to be implemented properly and in no way am I condoning blindly following a stock down, but again, there are benefits to this strategy, not the least of which is that you know where your stock has been.

 

Finally, and further to my point of treating each purchased lot individually. Many traders take a one-method view of trading, whether that be short or long term, or even an options-only strategy. However, there are benefits and situations where a mix of strategies can be employed as the situation dictates. Why not have both a short and a long term position on the same stock and reap the benefits of both strategies?

 

 So while I understand your thought process, it appears to be a little one-sided and wanted to clarify for those reading this that it is not always a bad thing. Understanding of course that each investors strategies are their own, even if they are copying someone else's, many people take what they read as 'law' and I felt both sides should be represented here.

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Green Monkey

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I agree with this article, I think averaging down is rarely a good strategy.  This is how people ruin themselves.  The reason why traders average down is largely because human beings tend to be myopic when it comes to trading.  My advice is the same as the article's, get out of losing positions and wait or move on to something else.  There are too many opportunities out there to waste time and money averaging down losing positions.
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redsoxrule

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Averaging down worked great for Enron, and more recently, the financials, NOT. I've heard the arguments about being in for the "long term". Even so, no point losing in the "short term". As long as there are traders that cling to that silly notion, and buy more on the way down, there will be short sellers who make a lot of money.

Dollar cost averaging is something totally different, involving investing equal amounts in set time frames regardless of price. That is better for the market overall or mutual funds, but not a good idea for individual stocks, or even sector funds. Today's great companies may not be so great tomorrow. 

 

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EnglishTeach

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I like this quote: ‘when you get to the point that your last trade doesn't affect your next trade then you have made it as a trader.'
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Serge

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This viewpoint is simply foolish, because it assumes that if a stock is falling, you don't want to own more. You should never average down for the sake of averaging down. However, if you look at a stock you own and ask yourself if you would buy it today and the answer is a resounding "Yes," why not buy more?

I am also somewhat amused by the contradictory arguments that your article makes.  First, you say that an "old and wise" trader told you that "when you get to the point that your last trade doesn't affect your next trade then you have made it as a trader." Then, you go on to argue that your last trade SHOULD affect your next trade, because if the last trade was unprofitable, you should not purchase the stock. Clearly you should revisit the old and wise trader's advice.

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Jim Jackson

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Serge, I don't think Doc is saying that if you still think that the stock is a good trade that you shouldn't buy more. I think it is more like don't buy more just to try to save a trade that has gone bad. I don't see the contradiction. Buy it if you like it not because you are trying to get back lost money.

 

I think that some of this has to do with the difference between a shorter term "trader" mentality and a longer term "investor" mentality and if you use stops or not.

 

Did you read the "Stay out of Trouble" article? I think that's the kind of thing he's talking about.

Jim

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Serge

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Jim - thanks for explaining, in that case it makes more sense. It can also help to think that you're making a trade to buy every day by not selling your holdings.
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TK All-star

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All,

 

Thanks for your comments. Doc Maher has responded in the new post Trader or Investor?

 

Regards,

--Nicole Wachs

Director of Education

All-Star Commentator

 

Nicole's previous posts: Stock Goes Up...Calls Go Down?! and Getting Familiar with Earnings Plays

 

Options involve risk and are not suitable for all investors.

Please read Characteristics and Risks of Standardized Options.

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TK All-star

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Be sure to check out Doc's latest post, Swing Trading GOOG Options.

 

Regards,

--Nicole Wachs

Director of Education

All-Star Commentator

 

Options involve risk and are not suitable for all investors.

Please read Characteristics and Risks of Standardized Options.

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optionsguy

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Hello All,

I really enjoyed this read, so I felt the urge to comment. Some very good points made by Doc Maher and by all the commenters. The entire discussion can be summed up by grouping people into technical or fundamental analysis investors. The fundamental analysis people do not like this post and the technical analysts seem to. Maybe I am over simplifying it, but this quote inside the post says it all for me.

We look at the chart and I say ‘would you buy this stock now? ' Of course they say ‘No, it looks like we should short it.' My response is "Great, problem is you are long and you want to get longer."

This phrase from my point of view is definitely a post stated from a technical analysis point of view and if the chart is saying sell don't just buy as a second effort to get out of the trap. On the other side of the coin. If you recently bought a stock that had no sub-prime debt issues, but it is deemed a financial stock guess what - your stock went down. If you doubled checked the books and know for sure it does not have sub-prime debt issues and the earnings recently are still showing year after year growth. I can not think of a better opportunity to buy more. Now that was a fundamental point of view.

Neither are wrong – just different.

Regards,
Brian (Og)
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