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introducing...One Cancels Other!

We're pretty excited about launching our latest advanced order feature, One Cancels Other (OCO). This bad boy -- along with One Triggers Other, contingent orders and trailing stops -- takes our clients one step closer to programmed trading, a force pretty much exclusive to institutional investors currently. (That's the reason for my image-choice today: a bunch of felt robots to symbolize the power of automation!)

One Cancels Other works just as the name suggests: you can place an order with two parts, and if one part is triggered by market conditions, the other order cancels automatically. This comes in handy especially for bracketing an existing position and better controlling your risk. Say, for example, you bought stock or option XYZ at 4, and you've seen a nice rise in price to 7. Problem is, you're heading off for vacation. If your price target was 8, you'd be more than happy to sell and lock in the profit -- but similarly, if the position takes a dive you want to limit your losses. An OCO order takes care of both possibilities: you can place a limit order to sell at 8 AND a stop-limit order to sell at, say, 3. Whichever order triggers first will go to market, while the other order is automatically canceled -- and you can stop worrying over vacation. One Triggers Other works pretty similarly: if conditions change so that one order gets sent to market, that action triggers another pre-loaded order. OCO and OTO orders can be established for stock-option or stock-stock combinations.

Trailing stops can really help fine-tune your risk management. You can set a "trail" amount in either points or a percentage. Take the above example again, where the stock or option is at 7. You could use trailing stops to set a 1-point "trail", so that as the position goes up, you'd have a stop order 1 point below the current market price. So if the position takes a sudden turn for the worse, your stop would get triggered and help protect your downside risk -- all while not limiting your chances to participate in further upside movement.

Contingent orders allow you to set a condition under which a stock or option order goes to market. These advanced orders are pretty useful when you think there's a strong relationship between two companies -- a distributor and manufacturer, for example, or an oil supplier and a big oil consumer. If stock or option A hits a certain price target, your contingent order stands ready to react with an order on stock or option B. Again, it's all about freeing you from obsessively watching the computer, so you can time your responses more intelligently and efficiently.

You can check these out in greater detail by logging in to your TK brokerage account, then clicking on Trading in the top nav bar. You'll see a pulldown menu of advanced orders towards the bottom of that screen, plus some pop-up help to explain what eac order means. (See samples below.)





I'd love to hear what you think of these new order types -- and which you may be interested in next. Talk to me, people!

[image: 3 robots by agustina on flickr]

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Edited by bigdog at 10/07/08 10:20 PM
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microcaps

Member since: Aug 06

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Don,

This OCO funtionality is definitely a very nice and useful.

Never thought the OTO functionality will be a reality but since you already implement it, that is going to be awesome. I remember a time when I want to sell a stock if the competitor is down (provided my stock is not down too yet).

To make this OTO and OCO funtionality even more useful, is it possible to stack this OTO and OCO orders.. or to issue a contingent order to another order that hasn't happen yet.. for example.. if stock A is at $11, and I want to submit the following before I leave out of town:
1. Market/Limit order to buy if it drop to $10.
2. Only if the order #1 above is executed then set a stop loss order if the stock drop to $9.50
3. Similar to #2, only if #1 is executed and the stock goes up to $11, then sell the stock and book the gain.

and if #2 is executed, then #3 is cancelled.
and similarly if #3 is executed then #2 is cancelled.

Also, maybe if the first cycle has complete (#1 and #2/#3 get executed) it can cycle back to #1 again (repetitive trading).

Sincerely,

Sidarta Tanu
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prudentinvestor

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prudentinvestor
Excellent trading tools, this is why I decided to go with TradeKing. I can't trade during the day so setting up my trades the night before with these tools puts my mind at ease. I like the contigent order feature and the trailing stop. I feel better puting trailing stops on my securities now knowing the stop moves up when the price does.
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bigdog

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Really good question, Sidarta (as always). Let me check with my product team and see if that scenario is possible now or in the foreseeable future at TK.

Here’s a question back to you, if I may: you always contribute such great thoughts to our community, and it’s clear you’re trading somewhere. When can we look forward to opening your TradeKing brokerage account?

Thanks again for the great product suggestion – more info back to you soon.

Be Good,
Don
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bigdog

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Glad these new order types are working for you, Cashj. It can definitely come in handy to set up some orders in advance – and there’s more to come from us on this front, for sure!

Back to your question, Sidarta: I’ve heard back from Roberto Donovan in our product team. While our order types currently don’t support every step of the scenario you described, sounds like you and our product group are thinking along much the same lines for next steps to this feature. I’ll keep you and all my blog-readers posted when we can announce our next step forward on this front.

Thanks to both of you!
Don
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microcaps

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Thanks for the quick reply Don (and thanks to Roberto Donovan for providing the answer).

Glad to see TradeKing is leading this change. Introducing many cool new features (OCO and OTO)which someday could become standard feature/requirement. Being innovative (and continue to differentiate yourself) is very important in my opinion and I think you guys are heading to the right direction.

Interesting to see that TK product group and I are thinking along the same line (about stacking OCO and OTO and enable trading to be more automatic).. I guess smart people think alike.. just kidding :)

And as always, glad that I can help.

Sincerely,

Sidarta
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microcaps

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Hi again Don,

I forgot to answer your question about opening TradeKing brokerage account.

Currently, I don't plan to open TradeKing brokerage account. It's because I already have several accounts (private banking/wealth management) and I don't trade much myself nowadays. I'm also more of a long term investor type (so I don't trade often to begin with). I still do buy stocks myself once in a while though.

About a year ago, I remember asking/suggesting TradeKing (as a response to your ''how we do it for $4.95 post'') to create a level of service for those who put a lot more money in the TradeKing accounts and give a lot more perks (and features) to these customers (whenever you guys are ready to do so). I know that $4.95 itself is a very compelling feature and probably creating another tier for benefits and level of service isn't one of Tradeking focus/niche and I agree, but as you guys get bigger (and eventhough you guys are not a bank) , maybe you want to penetrate this segment (affluent and mass affluent) which I think is growing, and for this segment , a new and more lucratice products and benefits should be created. So in this case,I think it's more my problem/my specific situation.

Having said that, I think there is stll switching cost that might be the bottleneck for general people to open an account (to any broker as a matter of fact) if one already have an/multiple accounts and don't want to add another account. However. If I'm a frequent trader, college student or professional but just starting to invest, I will definitely open (or switch to) a TradeKing account (and probably a Scottrade account, when Tradeking hasn't existed yet). So I think it might be good to try to market/target to those group.

FWIW, I did consider opening a TradeKing Brokerage account last year just to help you guys out (and test all the functionality and give suggestion wherever I can) but I decided that I don't want to add another account that I need to maintain/attend to (and to help without having a brokerage account).

Maybe some of this situation will change in the future. For example, if I become a full time investor (and trade more often and more time to manage more accounts), maybe I will open a TradeKing account. Also since you guys have such cool features, I might want to use those features and include it my investing strategy.

Hope this answer your question (and sorry for a long and complicated answer to a short question).

Sincerely,

Sidarta Tanu
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microcaps

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microcaps
Don,

About why I said I am not planning to open a Tradeking account, I want to make sure that there is no misunderstanding. I'm not implying that Tradeking products and commissions structure are inferior because they are indeed on-par if not way better than the competitors. I've also said that it's because of my specific situation, if not, I would have definitely already open an account with you guys.

The main reason (in addition to that I don't want the extra account/complexity), in a nutshell, is that I'm spoiled with perks. Though I know that there is no free lunch and I must have been paying for those perks one way or another.

Let me give one example. When I buy stock myself, I buy a lot of junk/penny stocks. When I buy 50,000 shares of penny stocks at .10 per share, the commission would be a couple hundred dollars ($504.95 to be exact according Tradeking comission schedule) which is a lot of money for only $5,000 worth of stock order. And at that rate, the comission cost would really adds up fast. Most other brokerages also charge around the same amount (adding additional fees for penny stocks). The only difference is when I get those hundreds of dollars of fees or commissions, I just call my Advisor and they credit them back right away.

I don't think it would be fair to have similar expectation and to ask Tradeking to credit back that kind of money. At the same time I don't feel good/smart spending hundreds of dollars of commission for a $5,000 trade.

Hope this explains better.

Sincerely,

Sidarta Tanu
Anonymous
Tradeking services are good. The responce via chat and the trading commission fees are all good

The software I am getting used to
I like to have one window where I can follow one stock ( Chart streaming) place order and edit the order and the account status displayed

Without changing the window or screen

With too many windows popping and constantly canging windows It takes the conecentraion out of trading
Anonymous
Thanks for your responses, Sidarta - especially for the insight into your decision about opening a TK brokerage account. Your assumption is correct: right now it's not part of our brand strategy to offer a separate tier for the wealthy. We're more concerned with what we think is a valuable, underserved group: independent investors with a special interest in options trading, who've had enough of confusing pricing tiers and poor customer service from many of our competitors. Our aim is to provide that group with great innovative trading tools, ''country-club'' like service, and a thriving trader community, all at a fair and easy-to-understand price. Hopefully we're delivering on that promise; judging from our clients' response, it certainly seems that way.

I hear you on the difficulty of opening and switching accounts. It's a long-standing fact of the brokerage business that the account opening form is just long, mostly due to ''know your customer'' regulatory requirements that do serve an important purpose. We do everything we can to make opening or switching your account to TradeKing as streamlined as possible - and then we really focus hard on providing such a great experience that you're not tempted to leave us. As I wrote here before: other brokerages talk about ''acquiring'' clients like cattle, but we prefer to ''attract'' them of their own free will, and keep them happy once they're with us. If the time is ever right for YOU to join TradeKing as a client, know that we'll work hard every day to deliver a top-shelf experience to you!

I'll end my spiel with one last point-to-ponder: in addition to our options offerings, we also offer a comprehensive array of mutual funds, ETFs, and fixed income products for longer-term investing. You might be surprised at what we can offer you - at a much more affordable price than the wealth-management guys. Take a look and tell me what you think...

Thanks again for your comments.

Be Good,
Don
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bigdog

Member since: Dec 05

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bigdog
Thanks for your responses, Sidarta - especially for the insight into your decision about opening a TK brokerage account. Your assumption is correct: right now it's not part of our brand strategy to offer a separate tier for the wealthy. We're more concerned with what we think is a valuable, underserved group: independent investors with a special interest in options trading, who've had enough of confusing pricing tiers and poor customer service from many of our competitors. Our aim is to provide that group with great innovative trading tools, ''country-club'' like service, and a thriving trader community, all at a fair and easy-to-understand price. Hopefully we're delivering on that promise; judging from our clients' response, it certainly seems that way.

I hear you on the difficulty of opening and switching accounts. It's a long-standing fact of the brokerage business that the account opening form is just long, mostly due to ''know your customer'' regulatory requirements that do serve an important purpose. We do everything we can to make opening or switching your account to TradeKing as streamlined as possible - and then we really focus hard on providing such a great experience that you're not tempted to leave us. As I wrote here before: other brokerages talk about ''acquiring'' clients like cattle, but we prefer to ''attract'' them of their own free will, and keep them happy once they're with us. If the time is ever right for YOU to join TradeKing as a client, know that we'll work hard every day to deliver a top-shelf experience to you!

I'll end my spiel with one last point-to-ponder: in addition to our options offerings, we also offer a comprehensive array of mutual funds, ETFs, and fixed income products for longer-term investing. You might be surprised at what we can offer you - at a much more affordable price than the wealth-management guys. Take a look and tell me what you think...

Thanks again for your comments.

Be Good,
Don
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bigdog

Member since: Dec 05

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bigdog
Thanks for the suggestion, Rajbabu. I’ll pass this along to our product development team and see if we have any enhancements cookin’ to address this need.

Glad to hear you’re enjoying your TradeKing experience, too. Please let us know if there’s anything we can do to keep you happy!

Be Good,
Don
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