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This group is for brand new option traders. If you've never traded an option, this groups for you. Although... we would like to have some experienced option traders to help us through the more difficult trades. I will start this group with a simple covered call. This will be my first option trade, so the excitement starts right away. We will be using The Options Playbook as our guide. Everybody can ask all and any questions without the fear of looking like an idiot.

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Options for Beginners Forum > Finding the Bottom
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Govols

Member since: Jul 08

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Lots of folks are looking for a bottom, calling a bottom here, there. All kinds of opinions on "triple bottoms", "testing the lows", blah, blah, blah.

Truth is, nobody really knows where the bottom is (If you do, let me know and we can get rich together). But we do know a couple of things:

1) Volatility is still huge. VIX closed today at 67.54, even with the late rally. Intraday swings of 2-3% and more are still happening.

2) The news is bad, bad, bad. Yes, the market will turn around before the news does, but it seems like there are more shoes to drop.

3) A bear market often has big rallies. We saw one last Thursday, and a daily intraday rally every day since. So far, none of the rallies have held for long.

One school of thought says, "Hey, we're down 40%+ from the highs of last year. Surely we're at the bottom by now. It's crazy to be short now" Well, maybe. But I think there's still lots of downside potential. I've tried some long positions lately and I've lost on just about every one. Only short positions are making me any money right now.

If you're a long-term investor, you want to buy at the bottom and ride the recovery up. But if you're an option trader, I suggest you consider reversing the strategy: while the market is searching for a bottom, go short (buy puts) after every rally. You make money on the (so far) inevitable correction. I've been doing this with some minor success for a few weeks now, and I'm trying to fine tune my approach. But even with a non-sophisticated approach I've had more winners than losers.

Because of all the churn in the market, you stand a good chance of getting a correction fairly quickly, so the option value decay doesn't work against you. I'd like to have at least 3 weeks before expiration, so I'm trading Dec. puts now. I'd like to hold just a few days. If the market moves my way significantly, I set a trailing stop and wait to be stopped out at the next rally.

ETF's are great for this. They give you broad-based exposure to the market (or a sector) and have generally excellent liquidity. I've been trading SPY puts, but you could look at QQQQ, IWM, DIA, or the SPDR sectors like XLE or XLF.

Warning: At some point, conditions will change and this won't work any more. And there probably won't be any notice (no magic bell rings at the bottom). If volatility comes way down, any contracts I'm holding will erode and it will take longer for the correction to come, which means time decay starts hurting me. If the bottom is in, the correction will never come, and I'll lose. I'm just sharing what I'm doing.

I'd like to hear how you all are trading this crazy market...
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PutAngel

Member since: Oct 08

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Lol...funny thing is that I was one of the bottom callers when I saw Thursayd's rally, but you're right...there's no legs for these and I've been buying puts on every rally for sure! As for the elusive "bottom"...I look at 6700-7200 as possible. There's so much bad data yet to be released. And unemployment for Nov...OUCH...don't want to see those numbers. I'm a big capitalist and I strongly believe in American jobs and companies, but I dont find it unpatriotic to short these stocks or buy puts on these stocks because I'm sure the bad managers don't have any problem taking my money to pay for their mistakes. Besides, shorting ETF's mean you don't have guilt of singling out a bad performer! Plus they offer great liquidity.

As for trading, I also use unsophisticated strategies to make some money.
A. No calls (I've bought a total of one in the last two weeks!)
B. Puts on the intraday rallies
C. The one call I did buy was on Thursday around 1:30. Lately, I've seen that the bulls attempt a rally between 1 and 3.
D. To follow that up...the bears come back in at the last 20 minutes of trading and they come blood-thirsty!
E. Occasionally, I'll cheat the market and play the futures for the first 5 minutes. This includes a total of 3 stupid steps:  1. Look at the future.
                     2. If they're down more than 100, buy puts on a market order at 9:30 and cash out quick for small gains
                     3. If they're up, wait till the market opens and buy puts when the market bulls over 100.

Stupid techniques, but no traditional techniques work when you're trading these markets. You don;t have time to set anything up!

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Govols

Member since: Jul 08

5 Day 0.00%
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3 Month -86.41%
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1 Year -97.96%
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Age: 40's
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From yesterday's Daily Reckoning:

"The whole process takes time. There are millions of mistakes in need of correction. Each one has to be marked down, written off, worked out, and forgotten. We still have to see the show trials. And the perp walks. And the kvetching...the complaining...the whining...the wimpering. The bailouts and the payoffs... The bottles of whiskey and the loaded revolvers. It’s all still ahead!
Dow 5,000...
10% - 15% unemployment...
Another 20% off house prices...
There’s a lot of ruin left to go..."

http://www.dailyreckoning.com/
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Razz

Member since: Oct 08

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I think we're nearing the bottom but there are some problems that stand in the way of a bottom forming...

As I see it, certain companies become seriously undervalued when a the market declines like this because good companies as well as bad companies go down.  Normally, you'd see cash rich companies come in and acquire their competitors, but this is being prevented by the credit crisis.  As it stands now, it makes more sense to hoard your cash just to keep the shorts from encircling your company for the kill.  Try getting a loan after you've spent your cash and the shorts whisper bad news about your company to the news, it just isn't going to happen.

The next problem is the taxation issue.  The tax laws all converge in a way that makes it advantageous to sell anything and everything you have a gain on in the next 2 years.  Why own a stock when you can take any profits you might have without being taxed?  Not that many people have gains anymore.

The point at which the market should stop selling off is where safe equities yield more than bonds.  Many do, but there are many that do not and if there isn't the cash available in mutual funds to buy these equities, there's not much they can do to prop up the market.

So really, a bottom can't form until at least one of these two issues are resolved:

1. Credit flows easily so companies can purchase each other
2. Equity funds receive money to buy equities, instead of having money withdrawn.

Yet with retirements nearing for the baby-boomers, option 2 is looking bleaker and bleaker as we approach 2010.  The market selling off comes down to the mechanics of money-flows rather than the fundamentals of companies.  The retirement generation is switching to fixed income and as a result we may see an era of extraordinarily low P/Es and high yields.
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Razz

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Oh and for a safe long-term investment... Oil, Oil, Oil

People are being proponents of gold because of the expected weak dollar in the future, yet the very thesis applies to Oil since that is a commodity as well.  The difference is that Oil is actually used by world economies instead of hoarded.  Until they decide to drill Alaska, Oil is the place to be because supply peaked in 2005 and no amount of bad market sentament towards Oil can change that, it's a fact of existance.

Ways to play the commodity Oil:

USO - Oil ETF, which trades on the commodity but not exactly the same as Light Sweet Crude at the commodity exchange in Chicago.

DXO - Double Long Leveraged Oil ETF, if Oil is up 50%, this puppy goes up 100%   Be careful with this one though, if you have to ride it down 30% before it goes up, you'll be hurting your gains significantly.

Or buy an Oil stock....

I like LINE (Linn Energy LLC), because if they increase their dividend (aka cash distribution) like they have been, they now yield 24% as I'm typing this.  It's a safe yield too because they sell all their oil for the next 3 years at $120 per barrell.  They sell their Natural gas at $8 per unit for the next 2 years.  So the dividend is safe, and you'll earn 24% to wait for Oil to come back.   If it doesn't, sell the stock before 3 years is up and you'll probably do great because you collected all that cash.

Be aware of the arcane tax structure related to their dividend type, if you own this company I strongly reccomend having a tax professional prepare your taxes.