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This group is for brand new option traders. If you've never traded an option, this groups for you. Although... we would like to have some experienced option traders to help us through the more difficult trades. I will start this group with a simple covered call. This will be my first option trade, so the excitement starts right away. We will be using The Options Playbook as our guide. Everybody can ask all and any questions without the fear of looking like an idiot.

Active Since 10/21/08

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Options for Beginners Forum > My first options play.
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eon

Member since: Feb 08

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I know, everyone recommends starting with covered calls, but I figured I'd dive right in with something just a bit riskier.  (Also, I wanted to get started, but wasn't interested in purchasing a bunch of underlying shares for a trade.)

For my first trade, I did a bull put spread.  This is a credit spread where the objective is to take the credit and have the options expire worthless.  It's a vertical spread where you buy and sell equal amounts of puts at different strike prices for the same expiration month.  You're getting credit from selling puts and then taking some of that credit to buy puts at a lower price as an insurance policy (making your risk known and limited).  The credit left over is your maximum profit.  You don't want the underlying strike price to fall below the price of the puts you sold.  Probability of success (maximum profit) can be estimated by taking the delta of the sold puts and subtracting it from 1.  (I'll illustrate it this in my trade.)

Nucor (NUE)

Sold to open: NLV XE 
$25 stike, expires Dec. 08. 
2 contracts @ $1.31 average

Bought to open: NLV XD
$20 strike, expires Dec.08
2 contracts @ $0.52 average

I make maximum profit if both of these options expire worthless. 

Maximum profit = $1.31 (sold) - $0.52 (bought) = $0.79 x 200 = $158 maximum profit

At the time of the trade, delta of NLV XE was 0.10.  This lets me calculate the probability of maximum profit as:

1 - 0.10 = 90% probability of maximum profit.  Note, this "probability" calculation is based on the consensus of the market at the time of the trade.

My maximum loss is calculated as the difference in strike prices minus my credit. 

$25 (sold)  - $20 (bought) = $5 x 200 = $1000 - $158 (credit) = $842 maximum loss

This gives me an 18.7% return on risk in roughly one month with a 90% probability of success.  Not bad!

I've tracked Nucor through the recent dips in the market and watched where it falls at the very worst times.  To maximize my profit, I set up this trade while the market was on a dip (this was actually very important, I believe).  Even in the worst dips, Nucor has a strong line of resistance around $30.  And it hasn't been below $25 in over 2 years.  I'm feeling pretty good about it. 


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eon

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Sorry.  Where I said:

You don't want the underlying strike price to fall below the price of the puts you sold.

I should have said:

You don't want the price of the underlying stock to fall below the strike price of the puts you sold.



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Govols

Member since: Jul 08

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So far so good on your position, eon.

Your options closed today at NLV XE Bid 1.40, NLV XD Ask 0.55, for 0.85 credit. Would you increase your position?

For those interested, eom needs to have $500 cash available per contract to close out the position if NUE is at $20 or below at expiration. So his investment is $500 - $79 credit per contract, or $421. If NUE is at $25 or above on Dec 20, he keeps his $500, for a return of 18.7%. If NUE is $20 or below, he loses the $421. Breakeven would be where the cost to close out is $79, or NUE at $24.21. (Commissions need to be factored in; they reduce his return and increase his loss potential and breakeven price.)
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eon

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At this point, I wouldn't increase my position, though it looks like I could make a lot more money by doing so because of the sudden and horrific downturn in the market today.

But no, I would not.  I'm understandably spooked by today's events.  I hope we can at least hold at this level!
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eon

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Wow.  I'm shocked.  I just didn't expect the markets to take such a steep dive so quickly.  It seemed like things were holding pretty firm somewhere around 840 on the S&P for the past month.  I'd guessed that there was pretty good resistance there and that while it might go lower, it wouldn't go this much lower in the following month.  And now here we are, already at 750 and I'm knocking on the door of my high strike price.  Jesus.

If I get out now, I'll only lose $400.  I can't decide whether I need to pare my losses here or hope for another rally so that I can pull out in better condition.  Certainly I won't be waiting until expiration, I'm way too spooked now and I'll count myself very lucky if I can mitigate losses.

What a wonderfully painful first lesson.  :(



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Razz

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I hear you, bad internet connection ruined my last two trades, I'm back down to what I started with after the decline today.

There was indications as why not to be bullish down near S&P 800, for technical reasons you could say it was the 3rd time it tested that bottom, in a bear market that's bad because it's most likely to break-though on the third test.  Or I could put it a little differently, if the market was going to switch into a bull market, we would have never seen the S&P at 800 again, the fact that we neared it is just incredibly bearish and as soon as that level is broken, of course millions of stop-losses hit the market and every person who cares about technical analysis sells.

I could understand thinking that the market would range-trade for a while considering its valuation, but for that to happen the auto-makers would have had to been bailed out.  Congress may bail them out in the end, but it didn't happen today.

I think there's a good chance of a rally tomorrow or Monday, but you have to sell it.  I would be so bearish as to sell the S&P when it touches near 800 again because that will probably become a resistance level.  Best case is that it uses 800 as a teetering point to zoom up past and then drop down back below.  Until the auto-makers are saved this market is absolutely rotten, no valuation is too low because no one has the capital to buy equities or businesses, which are required to even form a bottom.

I think the real bottom gets formed when we reach a pinnacle of negative news, like an auto-maker fails utterly or we see a really terrible unemployment number.  Even then it's hard to say which bit of news will be the worst and will it be more terrible than what is to come.  Only real strategy that works is to sell the rallies.  We'll enter a bull market again late next year or in 2010, and about that time the talking heads on CNBC will be saying you can't trust the rallies despite mutual funds holding nothing but cash.  That's when rallies will stick and fundamentals will matter.  If we're in a depression it'll be a slow climb up, if the economy isn't half bad then we'll probably see an insane year of 20% returns for the indexes just to arrive at fundmental valuation of companies once more.
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Razz

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Oh and congrats on your first options trade, consider the amount you lost as an investment in knowledge on how you will improve your investment strategies from here on.
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eon

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Well, we had a monster rally today.  I didn't have the opportunity to take advantage of it, but I'm hoping things won't deteriorate over the weekend.  I'd like to buy back my short option and then leave in my long option in hopes that the rally will be reversed (just like every other rally we've had in this market) and then I can make some money on the way back down.

Who knows, I just might turn a profit yet.  Wish me luck.  :)
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eon

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Hmmm... the news about Citi and Obama's appointments seems to have calmed the waters quite a bit.  Despite a slew of really bad news today (housing, consumer confidence, lots of other bad stuff) the market isn't reacting much, just seems to be a bit mixed but overall holding onto the gains from the previous two day rally.

Could it be we've returned to the previous bottom and are now seeing resistance again?  Also encouraging is that even as the market was indecisive today, Nucor posted a nice gain, up over 3%.

I'm thinking about staying the course now.

What do you guys think?
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Razz

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At this point I think the stock market is overbought.  I would take profits on any long option positions to be safe.  It's kinda easy to tell when it's overbought, I'm managing a fantasy portfolio and my worst performer in there was up 2% while my best performers were up 20% in a matter of a week.  If the market is done going down it needs to go up slower than this, this is just too far too fast.

About Obama calming the market, yes he did do that a bit I think, yet it changes nothing fundamental except uncertainty about the next treasury secretary.  Consider this... the market was already oversold and was in the middle of an upswing when Obama made that announcement.  Very often minor news seems to prod the market in a certain direction, not because the news is important to the fundementals of the market but because the market was going to make the move anyway, an impetus just helps it move.

It was good news no doubt, but to me it does not mean that the entire stock market is worth 10% more than it was before the announcement ;)  hence overbought.

If you want to short at this point, I would be cautious with such a move, the market may move a bit higher and have a false move to Dow 7,500 before making the real move there.  What I expect is a pull back to 8,200 and then a bounce upward from there but honestly who knows.