Forum > Dividends and Distributions
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Hardup4cash

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I was wondering how dividends and distributions are recieved. I curently hold a MLP that is paying out distributions in the coming week and I did not know how they would be paid. Are they sent to my tradeking account, my bank account or is a check mailed to my home address? Also I am not enrolled in any automatic or direct reinvest ment program since the company does not offer any.
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OldFart

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The default is to be applied to your TK account. Give Customer service a call, they can help you configure DRIP-like plan for the dividends
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YoungPunk

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DRIP plan= Dividend reinvestment?


Does DRIP mean your dividend is applied towards buying more stock of the copy that supplied it, If thats true then don't you run the risk of the reinvestment buying at a sub-optimal price?
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buynhold

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YP, you are correct.  However, DRIP's use the magic of dollar-cost averaging, so you will be buying fewer shares at higher prices, and more shares at lower prices.  They are intended to slowly increase your position in a stock that you feel will be increasing in price over the long-haul.
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PRDinvestments

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Don't forget the magic of compounding!

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StefanMcVeigh

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Hardup4cash,

OF is correct regarding the default method for securities here at TradeKing. When a dividend is paid the funds would be deposited into your account as cash. Once this is done you will be able to see this by going to Accounts > Activity. If you could please contact us through live chat or over the phone at 877-495-5464 we would be able review the account to determine what you currently have setup.

Best regards,

Stefan McVeigh
TradeKing Customer Support
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YoungPunk

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dollar cost averaging seems to be a wildly held belief and technique, its never sat well with me though. Just because I make 9 good deals doesn't make the 10th deal any better if it was crappy by itself. I'd rather find a better use of the funds, but if you buy stocks and don't touch them for long periods of time, then DRIP makes sense.
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spshapiro

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YP, I know I'm constantly saying don't take anybody's word here, but take my word- as long as you are not buying a stock going bankrupt, you do well using a DRIP. You just got to keep your bleeping fingers off it for awhile, to let the magic work.
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YoungPunk

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I'm wondering...

When does DRIP typically take place compared to when the funds are received by the brokerage. If its instantly I'm wondering if global DRIPs would be an anticipated bump in the market, a week or two after the ex-dividend date.
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spshapiro

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The stock is bought on the payment date, but not necessarily at any specific time of day.  Usually, if stock is bought at various prices by the administrator, you get the average price, if minimal commission charges.  But YP, this is done not for a shortterm advantage, but for longterm benefits.  I know at 23 longterm is anything beyond a two week relationship, I'm talking years.  For example, there is a utility stock that I haven't bought or sold any shares in since 9/05.  It has increased its dividend each year by a penny, but the greatest part of the following increase is from the DRIP.  In the 23rd quarter of 2005 I received a dividend of $100.02;  in the latest quarter I received $164.77. Yes, an increase of 65% in 4 years, for a utility.
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PRDinvestments

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I'm a big proponent of DRIP based investments. Through the brokerage associated with the bank I work at, I have my long term investments sitting, mostly high dividend ETF's.  Once I have that base build I'm moving my more active trades to TradeKing for the lower commission. (although I love the service here much more than at the other place.)

Lets say you have an entire portfolio strictly related to DRIP paying stocks and etf's.

You can easily average  a 6% yield among all those investments, some which pay out quarterly (compounding quarterly!!!), some which pay out monthly (even better!), and others of course yearly.   If there is no volatility in the market whatsoever, and no vertical movement, you make 6% the first year, and more after that on the same intial investment from compounding!  Can't lose with that!  With increased volatility comes the dollar cost averaging. Which technically should deviate around the mean, but in practicality can work to your favor.   on the upside it buys less shares, the downside it buys more, so you lose less when it falls, and gain more when it rises!

IT also provides some relief in down markets as well.

Thats why I like DRIP ETF's as well. they rebalance themselves every so often so you don't have to worry about one particular stock lowering its dividend, because the effect won't be felt as much by the ETF itself.


Thats why I like to have a big base of DRIP performing ETF's, with speculative stock picks as a smaller portion of the overall portfolio. (for the ultra long term investor (10+years)


Just my humble and untested investment strategy. Take everything I say with an extreme grain of salt cause I've only been investing since 2006, and have really only put a disciplined plan together in the past 5 months.(was pretty much testing the markets prior)

On a side note, do the trade numbers listed under people's names reflect dividends and/or drip?

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PROF

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Thank you for the info on DRIPs  Where can I get a ETF drip I would like to get into one?  Thank you
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PRDinvestments

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you can put almost anything that pays a dividend into the Drip Program.

For example, an emerging market ETF I own is DEM-wisdom tree emerging market. about a 6% annual yield, pays quarterly. quarterly compounding! So I am always kind of praying that it will dip a few percentages when the dividend pays out so i get in at a lower cost basis.

Another example that I own is JNK (a little bit more risky), a high yield bond etf, has an 11% annual yield paid monthly.  Monthly compounding adds up quite a bit quicker.

I also own DVY(dow), IAE(asiapac), PFF(prefered shares), DEB (europe), and others, each that pay a great dividend.

with all those together, and depending on the allocation, you can exceed the 6%. My drip portfolio currently has a total average yield of about 9%. I've got some riskier stuff in there, (PFF and JNK, each which pay out about 11% yields)  and others. I gotta get IPE (tips) and DBC(commodities) in there soon to take a little of the risk away. Also thinking about incubus's recomendation of a shorting etf, although since im in for the long term, i don't know if I need that. I'm mulling it over.



A closed end fund to look at that I was referred to by someone on this forum was AOD and AGD.  they are closed end funds, but they pay high yields. great for DRIP as well. 

But then again, given the different distribution timelines, it adds even more importance on rebalancing your portfolio of securities onnce and a while to keep your allocation sound.

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YoungPunk

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It makes sense from a longterm-handsoff investment standpoint. Personally I'd rather take those profit funds, pool them together and invest at determined optimal times rather than at random price points.


Maybe one of the things I'm not considering is if you guys don't have to pay fee's for DRIP then you'd save on the trading cost of RIP manually. confirm?
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PRDinvestments

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no fees for drip at any brokerage i have used.
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PRDinvestments

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and your strategy would work well also, but drip allows you to hold fractional shares as well, so you have your money at work for a longer period of time.

if you own 1 share of xyz @ $100,  and the yield is 12% paid monthly,  youd have .01 shares added every month, so every cent is at work longer than if you waited the full 8-9 years to have the full dividend to pay it all.

You also then don't get the compounding effect.

With the example above, you would get your first monthly dividend with 1 share, then you would get .01% the next month for 1.01 shares, the next month for 1.0101 shares, etc.

the example is obviously way over simplified and the benefit isn't shown all that well with  just 1 share. but you get the idea.
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PRDinvestments

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sorry for the multiple posts.

But I just did the math for a better example.

Lets say you are going to follow the strategy where you collect the div's and put them all in when you are ready.

For sake of example, say the market doesn't move up or down at all.

suppose you had 100 shares of XYZ at $10. dividend yield is 6% a year, or .5% per month. (given a monthly distribution)


So you start with $1000 on each camp

5 years down the road, reinvesting with DRIP, youd have made a 34.8% return or $348 with no market movement at all.

5 years down the road, reinvesting by taking cash div's, you would have 1305, but then subtract the brokerage fees for each individual time you would have bought back in. Lets say you bought back in 2 different times throught the 5 years. At TK that would be -$10, leaving you at a total gain of 29.5% gain.


and that is with no market movement. The cost of not having cash in the market to ride the up trends and dollar cost average in the down would only help the DRIP. and unless you are very good at predicting bottoms, you most likely would be outperformed due to brokerage fees.


34.8% gain, vs. 29.5% gain.

But lets go for 5 more years,

81.9% gain on Drip     60.5 with no drip and no fees.  LEts say over the 10 years you put back in 10 times. Thats an additional 50 bucks. that drops it down to the following:

81.9% gains on DRIP,  55.5% on  no dip with fees. And again, thats not counting any runups that the DRIP would have caught that money not in the market would have made.

$819 in 10 years vs. $555
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YoungPunk

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PRD- Thank you I wasn't aware DRIP did partial shares, sounds weird: can I go on TK and buy .33 shares of Berkshire Hathaway option B stock?

Also one of my issues with your example is the static market price. I agree with the static market price your system works. However without the static price, a hopefully increasing value stock would have Deminishing returns on each reinvestment you did. Really depends on the individual situation. But for example if you get your monthly dividend of.. 0.5%, and its reinvested on a day that is 1.5% above the true equilibrium value, well I feel like when the market shifts back then, you have lost that added value. You still own more stocks, but value wise you own either the same or less. I"m also oversimplifying in the opposite direction, but what I'm trying to point out is what makes this hard to model. Basically I'm just trying to stick with the basic premise, buy low sell high, and I feel the auto DRIP is oblivious to that.
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PRDinvestments

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you cannot go directly to TK and buy .33 shares if I'm not mistaken.

If you were to buy the stock, had the DRIP plan and it paid a dividend, then it would reinvest and leave you with a fractional share.

in your example,you are correct.   lets say that the distribution is quarterly.

you have 1 stock at $10,  pays out $1 every quarter.

at the end of quarter 1, the stock price is at 12 dollars.   Therefore you would have 1 1/12 shares.

lets say it then falls back to 10.

you would be left with 10.83  instead of 11. (it it stayed at 12, then I would 13 dollars, and you would have 13 dollars)

But then the next quarter it closes at $8. and then it goes back up to 10. (if it stayed at 8 you would have 10 dollars, and I would have quite a bit less, don't feel like doing the math. So you're strategy reigns supreme if it stops here. However, the benefit comes on the jump.)


Once it jumps back to 10.
Then you would be left with  $12.08 using drip instead of just 12 using your strategy. The benefit comes from long time use. The real benefit comes if it just continuously rises and doesn't stop. because then every sent of my money is at work from the time I got it until I sell it all, where you have to wait to accumulate cash to purchase enough shares to justify the brokerage fee,, and then you  have to take the brokerage fee out.

now you would just have that cash sitting their depreciating, while my fractional shares would have still gained.

The dollar cost averaging theory assumes that you can't predict a bottom. ITs always safer to buy at specified periods of time over the course of a downtrend so that your average cost per share lowers for when the rebound hits.

If you can predict and buy at the bottom, and you are confident in your abilities to overcome the brokerage fee's, then your method would be better, only depending on how often you reinvest.

In the case I just noted above, you wouldn't beable to buy another share for years, while my money would have already rode the ups and downs and had been working for me the entire time..



Its best for stocks that you just let sit there. Don't have to worry about them nearly as much.

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PRDinvestments

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the question comes in, in a continually appreciating environment, your individual lump contributions would face the same diminishing returns, but even smaller returns, since your dollars couldn't ride the entire wave.