Option Commission Option Suggestion

Posted by doougle on August 17, 2012 (05:39AM)

TradeKing, as we all know, has favorable commission rates.  As an option trader, paying a low base rate and low per contract rate is nice.

I'm suggesting an alternative option commission schedule, where you would pay a per option flat rate.  For example, .95 / contract with no base charge.

The reason I'm suggesting this is that it's cost prohibitive to do 1 or 3 contract purchases.  For some traders, the current commissions will work better.  That's why I'm only suggesting this as an alternative option.

Just throwing it out there.

Posted by spshapiro on August 17, 2012 (07:39AM)

I certainly recognize the right of anyone to spend their money in whatever way they wish, as long as that doesn’t overtly impede someone else from “life, liberty….” As a corollary, I also believe that if you are to find some semblance of happiness in this life, you are best not to go around measuring other people’s wallets. All that granted, if you are concerned about paying a buck or two versus $5-$8 dollars per trade, then I think you might have your measure of risk out of whack. I am not just saying that the difference of under $10 a trade shouldn’t be the determinate of your trade, but consider this amount to the value that is at risk.

I realize that we all have to start out somewhere, and at some time, but if your value at risk (what the trade could lose if everything blew up) is measured in only a couple of hundred dollars, then perhaps you shouldn’t be trading options but putting your money at much less risk. To bank on your skill to pick the good option trade, and here I’m assuming that you are buying calls (ITM or not) is to be taking on more risk than buying a ‘bluechip’ stock.

If your value at risk is measured in a thousand or more, then what is less than $10 in the scheme of things. If I buy a thousand dollars worth of stock, $10 one way or the next, doesn’t mean I would do anything. If I was looking for a 20% gain, I could sell at a profit of $190 and not lose a bit of sleep, especially if my opinion was the stock might go lower.

I like low commissions as much as the next guy, but when they are ‘low enough’, then good executions, and good customer service matter as much if not more so. 

Posted by TampaJake on August 17, 2012 (08:30AM)

Interesting topic for expiration day. If TradeKing thought it was in their best interest to do this it would probably already be available. Due to the risks inherent in options there may be some guidelines, or even rules from governing bodies, that are being followed to keep us from loading up on option positions. Before you trade options you have to agree that you understand the risks involved. This protects the broker if you lose your shirt trading options. You can't say you were not warned. The risks may also be part of the reason why the pricing structure is set up this way, but TK is running a business and needs to maintain a level of profitability.

Posted by doougle on August 17, 2012 (09:51AM)

If I'm allocating 10,000 to a condor, I'de much rather put on a couple contracts at a time, then come back later and add (or subtract) to the position.  With the current commission schedule, it's about .07/share to do a singe condor.  To do 5 condors, the cost is .03/share.  So It pushes me to sell more contracts per trade.

I agree with the above risk comments, so this alternative fee schedule would encourage, or not punish, smaller traders.

Posted by spshapiro on August 17, 2012 (10:04AM)

I know that doougle understands that I respect that he is an experienced trader to make the determination about risk when considering a trade, but there are many who read our remarks and only focus on the ‘upside’ potential. It is a concern that should make a through evaluation of the risk instead of only, “Oh, I can make X and it will only cost me $3, whoopee!!” that I offered my remarks. 

Posted by billyball on August 17, 2012 (10:41AM)

I agree that it will help smaller and beginning traders.  If I sell a $.50 option, I need a 23% move in the option to break even.  I feel like I have to take on more risk for the option to be worth it.  A second option brings it to 15% and a third to just over 9%.

Posted by David Dusseault on August 18, 2012 (02:21PM)

good feedback everyone, there was a similar conversation we answered happening here...

http://community.tradeking.com/forum/categories/general/topics/9015-multiple-watchlists/forum_posts#forum_post_104213

thanks,
Dave

Posted by SimpleTrades on August 18, 2012 (02:42PM)

I recently bought and sold 25 SPY Calls on the same day. The two transactions were about 2 hours apart. I don't day-trade so I used an OTO (option option). The comission for both transactions were about 11% of my profit which I think is reasonable. Of course for one call it would have been close to 40%.

Posted by SimpleTrades on August 18, 2012 (02:47PM)

Sorry, I was wrong. For one Call the commission would have been close to 100% of the profit. So this trade only made sense with a larger number of Calls

Posted by spshapiro on August 18, 2012 (03:53PM)

ST, it appears that this is just the type of trade that I was talking about with doougle. If the commission for one call equals the profit, let’s be generous and say commission in and out, well we are talking about less than $12 profit. Now, what was your risk if the trade went wrong? How much could you have stood to lose before you pulled the plug on it? If you could have been down a couple of hundred, then it would take quite a number of good trades to make up for one bad one. Well, how often does that happen?  If you are buying calls, I doubt that you have the percentage of gains that I see selling options.  Look at your record of trades, it is not unfair to predict the your future returns will be similar to the past (unless you change what you are doing.) Yes, I will admit that you may get better at it after some time, but you won’t go from 40% wins to over 90%, just with a little experience.

I am not trying to tell you how you should trade; I am trying to get you to look at what is truly at risk in the manner that you have been trading.    

Posted by SimpleTrades on August 18, 2012 (04:09PM)

I just wanted to point out whit an example that some trades only profitable with a larger number of options. I consider the above example a low risk trade since it only required the underlying, SPY to move less than 0.5% which has a high probability. On that particular day, SPY was in a narrow range. I bought it at the lower Bollinger Band and sold it at the upper BB. Also there were another 2-3 additional supports right below the lower BB to reduce the risk.

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