This is a great article about the Y generation and their future when it comes to retirement. Perhaps one contributing issue to serious volatility in the market is that there are very few but and hold investors anymore. Most of those are near retirement and are very dismayed about their investments choices. These Y generation adults are not socking away money like the baby boomers did.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/financialfinesse/2012/07/25/what-young-people-need-to-know-about-retirement/
The amount of money being withdrawn from the market by baby boomers is not being replaced fast enough by the younger generations. Perhaps when we return to 6% unemployment this may also change.
Follow posts
Oh, and here's the best part: After being responsible from an early age and building yourself a nice stash of wealth, when you get to your 40s certain people around you will wish they could have gotten the same "breaks" as you, apparently thinking what you have was all a game of chance. How you react depends on your personality, I personally fire right back with a question like "could you be more specific? What breaks?" It's easy to ask for me since the neighborhood I grew up in on the almost wrong side of the tracks is now the most crime-ridden section of the greater metro area in which I live. My breaks consisted of saying yes and agreeing to be "exploited" at minimum wage jobs in order to supplement my student loans.
However to make a blanket statement that everything he will have in the future was straight up earned or that he didn't have breaks not available to everyone he will know in his 40s is comical at best. Should people be jealous or envious of his position in the future, no, but they probably will be. However, he should be honest in his reflection of any opportunities he may or may not have had along the way that gave him a leg up.
Again, not trying to discourage or call out flanboy, I just don't agree with your assertion.
-The longer we have high unemployment, the bigger the case for 'helping' my generation. Assuming the economy recovers, the next generation will end up carrying us. It may be to my advantage to wait for that help.
-I don't see the current economic environment going away any time soon. I'm aiming for B-School in 3-5 years. I think I can get a student loan at a nice low rate before interest rates rise.
-As long as we keep on printing, we might be able to print our way out of debt. If the economy recovers, inflation goes up, and interest rates rise, my real debt is lowered. I can also then ask for a wage increase because of the higher inflation.
Too good to be true?
Seriously, since you invest it's highly unlikely you'd be pursuing a fluff degree so I'd guess you're in a hunt for marketable skills. That in itself renders you ineligible for a bailout.
Too bad time goes by so slowly, I just want to get it done with.
I'm a typical microwave generation guy. My impatience has also cost me in trading too, so I jsut have to tell myself to slow down. If I lose today, I feel like I have to make it back today. Not a good idea.
My (systems)engineer friend makes just under 40k a year. Most people around here make 8-12 dollars an hour. Gram crackers are 5.50$a normal sized box, small thing of chips 2.29$, gas 3.70$/gl, 4 'AA' batteries 5.99$ I could go on, my point is how can anyone save in this environment?
New, Young workers are not saving
It is time to challenge some of these well worn conventions from those who wish you to invest your retirement dollars with them. I am not saying that you don’t have to invest for your retirement. No, only those that are born rich and don’t fritter it away, or those who have an outsized income with only a greater amount coming in the future, need not be concerned over how to fund their retirement. But there are a lot of scare tactics, and outright misrepresentations put out by the industry, that should be put to bed.
So I’m not saying that you don’t have to save for your retirement, but I am saying that two tenets pushed on us are not true. One, you must start early, and two, that the early bird catches the worm.
The young today, often don’t begin their work life as early as my generation did. By definition, they will not have the income to save as young as we had. Now in my case, I’m maybe not the model to base this on, because I began work at a very early age and was able to pay for college wholly through scholarships, loans and my own resources. But once I left the university, I went hippie and didn’t resurface until my early thirties. In that respect I was much like the youth of today, finding myself flat broke after the birth of my daughter when I was 35. So everything I’ve done (financially) has been accomplished in the last thirty years.
Yes, it is nice to develop the habit of saving; however, it is more important to learn a sense of priorities. For a young family, it is not infrequent to find that the expenses of having a child are more than one anticipates. Raising a child, is clearly more important than funding a retirement years off. Yes, there are frivolous things one might spend their limited funds on, but getting them feed, clothed, and educated are not among them.
One of the stupidest things I ever did (in an economic sense) was to pay off our home early in order to save for my daughter’s college education. I should have went out and bought a bigger home and had a mortgage when she entered college. For the sum that I had saved thinking it would be spread over for four years, was deemed by the school to be available for the first year. Had I had a mortgage, she would have probably gotten a larger scholarship, because the debt would have counted against our income. When I explained to the financial committee that I had ignored our retirement for years in order to amass the sum, I got the look “You fool!” The moral is, home equity doesn’t count against you, nor would business equity, but watch out for financial assets.
More importantly, is the little story about how the person who puts their money away early, always has it over the one who starts later. It’s a crock of shit. I know of no individual who didn’t make many more mistakes when they first started out than when they were more experienced. Of course, you may say that it doesn’t matter whether you are 18 or 33 when you start, you will make mistakes; however, often the older person is less likely to make the emotional mistake, and quicker to amend it.
But the real problem with the parable that is told of the two investors is, that it stupidly assumes that you will make the same return year after year. The point, however, is that if you are good enough to stay in the game, you tend to get better over time. I know you young Turks don’t like to hear this, but there are some advantages to age, not many, but some are significant.
My point to the young is when you first start out, it is most important to learn. What you earn, is of lesser importance. It is important not to blow the little you have on a scheme that you really don’t understand. It is better to take smaller risks and stay in the game. The more you learn about yourself, and your preferred manner of investing the better you will be able to handle the inevitable bad days, and maybe limit them to some extent.
Baby boomers didn't save for retirement either:
Inadequate savings. Like other Americans, baby boomers have not saved adequately for retirement. According to the Employee Benefits Research Institute, 28 percent of today’s retirees have less than $1,000 in savings, while only 17 percent have more than $250,000. Only 29 percent have more than $100,000.
Read more: http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/business/x888174630/First-baby-boomers-turn-65-but-are-they-ready-to-retire#ixzz21yI7wVaM
I don't think Gen Y or Gen X won't have much of a savings problem assuming they can get employed, because they're going to see a lot of examples of what will happen to them if they don't save among the baby boomer population.
Inadequate savings. Like other Americans, baby boomers have not saved adequately for retirement. According to the Employee Benefits Research Institute, 28 percent of today’s retirees have less than $1,000 in savings, while only 17 percent have more than $250,000. Only 29 percent have more than $100,000.
Read more: http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/business/x888174630/First-baby-boomers-turn-65-but-are-they-ready-to-retire#ixzz21yI7wVaM
I don't think Gen Y or Gen X won't have much of a savings problem assuming they can get employed, because they're going to see a lot of examples of what will happen to them if they don't save among the baby boomer population.
Good stuff. I don't think you specifically mentioned it, but buy n' hold is another crock sold to the CNBC watchers of the world. Horrible advice.spshapiro said:
It is time to challenge some of these well worn conventions from those who wish you to invest your retirement dollars with them. I am not saying that you don’t have to invest for your retirement. No, only those that are born rich and don’t fritter it away, or those who have an outsized income with only a greater amount coming in the future, need not be concerned over how to fund their retirement. But there are a lot of scare tactics, and outright misrepresentations put out by the industry, that should be put to bed.
So I’m not saying that you don’t have to save for your retirement, but I am saying that two tenets pushed on us are not true. One, you must start early, and two, that the early bird catches the worm.
The young today, often don’t begin their work life as early as my generation did. By definition, they will not have the income to save as young as we had. Now in my case, I’m maybe not the model to base this on, because I began work at a very early age and was able to pay for college wholly through scholarships, loans and my own resources. But once I left the university, I went hippie and didn’t resurface until my early thirties. In that respect I was much like the youth of today, finding myself flat broke after the birth of my daughter when I was 35. So everything I’ve done (financially) has been accomplished in the last thirty years.
Yes, it is nice to develop the habit of saving; however, it is more important to learn a sense of priorities. For a young family, it is not infrequent to find that the expenses of having a child are more than one anticipates. Raising a child, is clearly more important than funding a retirement years off. Yes, there are frivolous things one might spend their limited funds on, but getting them feed, clothed, and educated are not among them.
One of the stupidest things I ever did (in an economic sense) was to pay off our home early in order to save for my daughter’s college education. I should have went out and bought a bigger home and had a mortgage when she entered college. For the sum that I had saved thinking it would be spread over for four years, was deemed by the school to be available for the first year. Had I had a mortgage, she would have probably gotten a larger scholarship, because the debt would have counted against our income. When I explained to the financial committee that I had ignored our retirement for years in order to amass the sum, I got the look “You fool!” The moral is, home equity doesn’t count against you, nor would business equity, but watch out for financial assets.
More importantly, is the little story about how the person who puts their money away early, always has it over the one who starts later. It’s a crock of shit. I know of no individual who didn’t make many more mistakes when they first started out than when they were more experienced. Of course, you may say that it doesn’t matter whether you are 18 or 33 when you start, you will make mistakes; however, often the older person is less likely to make the emotional mistake, and quicker to amend it.
But the real problem with the parable that is told of the two investors is, that it stupidly assumes that you will make the same return year after year. The point, however, is that if you are good enough to stay in the game, you tend to get better over time. I know you young Turks don’t like to hear this, but there are some advantages to age, not many, but some are significant.
My point to the young is when you first start out, it is most important to learn. What you earn, is of lesser importance. It is important not to blow the little you have on a scheme that you really don’t understand. It is better to take smaller risks and stay in the game. The more you learn about yourself, and your preferred manner of investing the better you will be able to handle the inevitable bad days, and maybe limit them to some extent.
Great comments all around. I was very fortunate in that my mom and dad taught me (more like pounded into me) to live conservatively, only purchase what you need and occasionally have a little fun. I did more than that but not much.Now I am pretty much set for retirement and don't have to work at 56. All that is left is to move back home.
I don't watch CNBC very much but on some of my investments I was either totally in the market or sitting in cash plus other investments. Now I like to move funds into different opportunities since I am watching all the time now. Most people can't do that now, especially if you have a tough job and a 401K.
Words of wisdom since the pros and hedge fund managers have all the short cuts:
I don't watch CNBC very much but on some of my investments I was either totally in the market or sitting in cash plus other investments. Now I like to move funds into different opportunities since I am watching all the time now. Most people can't do that now, especially if you have a tough job and a 401K.
Words of wisdom since the pros and hedge fund managers have all the short cuts:
My lesson for the past two years was how to become a contrarian investor and to stay away from commodities and anything types of options you don't understand.But the real problem with the parable that is told of the two investors is, that it stupidly assumes that you will make the same return year after year. The point, however, is that if you are good enough to stay in the game, you tend to get better over time. I know you young Turks don’t like to hear this, but there are some advantages to age, not many, but some are significant.
My point to the young is when you first start out, it is most important to learn. What you earn, is of lesser importance. It is important not to blow the little you have on a scheme that you really don’t understand. It is better to take smaller risks and stay in the game. The more you learn about yourself, and your preferred manner of investing the better you will be able to handle the inevitable bad days, and maybe limit them to some extent.
I guess I am contrary to the trend. I am 25 and am putting roughly 10% of every check into a variety of investments.
You're probably unlike most 25 year olds, good for you. Lots of 25 year olds today think they're not quite adults yet and still have their parents taking care of them.flanyboy said: I guess I am contrary to the trend. I am 25 and am putting roughly 10% of every check into a variety of investments.
Good job, Flanyboy. I would challenge you to save 20%. You would be surprised what adjustments you make naturally when the money never reaches your checking account.
And as you acquire skills, become more valuable and see your income increase, don't feel the need to ratchet up the quantity and quality of your possessions. Every time I buy a new car within a few months I've settled in and to a certain extent I feel like I'm driving a nicer version of the car I got out of. Don't get me wrong, enjoy your success, just enjoy it in moderation.Janosik said: Good job, Flanyboy. I would challenge you to save 20%. You would be surprised what adjustments you make naturally when the money never reaches your checking account.
Oh, and here's the best part: After being responsible from an early age and building yourself a nice stash of wealth, when you get to your 40s certain people around you will wish they could have gotten the same "breaks" as you, apparently thinking what you have was all a game of chance. How you react depends on your personality, I personally fire right back with a question like "could you be more specific? What breaks?" It's easy to ask for me since the neighborhood I grew up in on the almost wrong side of the tracks is now the most crime-ridden section of the greater metro area in which I live. My breaks consisted of saying yes and agreeing to be "exploited" at minimum wage jobs in order to supplement my student loans.
I guess you are going to assume he didn't get any breaks. All you know from his statement is that he is saving/investing 10% of his income and nothing else. You don't know if he is paying all of his bills, still living at home, piggybacking on the parent's cell plan or insurance plans, if/how he put himself thru college, got his car, etc. I applaud the fact he is saving and that you pulled yourself up and are a successful now.Patches O'Houlihan said:
Oh, and here's the best part: After being responsible from an early age and building yourself a nice stash of wealth, when you get to your 40s certain people around you will wish they could have gotten the same "breaks" as you, apparently thinking what you have was all a game of chance. How you react depends on your personality, I personally fire right back with a question like "could you be more specific? What breaks?" It's easy to ask for me since the neighborhood I grew up in on the almost wrong side of the tracks is now the most crime-ridden section of the greater metro area in which I live. My breaks consisted of saying yes and agreeing to be "exploited" at minimum wage jobs in order to supplement my student loans.
However to make a blanket statement that everything he will have in the future was straight up earned or that he didn't have breaks not available to everyone he will know in his 40s is comical at best. Should people be jealous or envious of his position in the future, no, but they probably will be. However, he should be honest in his reflection of any opportunities he may or may not have had along the way that gave him a leg up.
Again, not trying to discourage or call out flanboy, I just don't agree with your assertion.
i'm in flanyboy's club.
23 but like him, i save roughly 10% of every check. 5 goes to a retirement vehicle that earns 1-13% depending on market which i can't even touch until 10-15 years from now and 5 goes towards accumulating cash for carefully calculated and researched dividend stocks that yield 5-20%.
any extra I have goes to one of two things. first an emergency fund. and second an online advertising gig I do (zeekrewards) that earns me 1-2% daily on my balance.
At the moment, I'm barely surviving since I only have a part time job but I know that my wealth is growing little by little and will soon manifest.
but yea. guess we're exceptions.
23 but like him, i save roughly 10% of every check. 5 goes to a retirement vehicle that earns 1-13% depending on market which i can't even touch until 10-15 years from now and 5 goes towards accumulating cash for carefully calculated and researched dividend stocks that yield 5-20%.
any extra I have goes to one of two things. first an emergency fund. and second an online advertising gig I do (zeekrewards) that earns me 1-2% daily on my balance.
At the moment, I'm barely surviving since I only have a part time job but I know that my wealth is growing little by little and will soon manifest.
but yea. guess we're exceptions.
Ok I'll be the to fit the title correctly..
I'm 19 and will throw the rent money like its nothing!
I'm 19 and will throw the rent money like its nothing!
You're right, I made the assumption based on the idea that someone his age who is responsible is someone who has worked hard and not had an entitlement mentality. It's entirely possible that his parents paved the way with cutting checks for his education, etc.. I have no evidence that his circumstances were anywhere close to mine. That said, if they are, and with the explosion of the entitlement state he will have a future where the defeatists around him will wish they had his "luck".BC1979 said:
I guess you are going to assume he didn't get any breaks. All you know from his statement is that he is saving/investing 10% of his income and nothing else. You don't know if he is paying all of his bills, still living at home, piggybacking on the parent's cell plan or insurance plans, if/how he put himself thru college, got his car, etc. I applaud the fact he is saving and that you pulled yourself up and are a successful now.Patches O'Houlihan said:
Oh, and here's the best part: After being responsible from an early age and building yourself a nice stash of wealth, when you get to your 40s certain people around you will wish they could have gotten the same "breaks" as you, apparently thinking what you have was all a game of chance. How you react depends on your personality, I personally fire right back with a question like "could you be more specific? What breaks?" It's easy to ask for me since the neighborhood I grew up in on the almost wrong side of the tracks is now the most crime-ridden section of the greater metro area in which I live. My breaks consisted of saying yes and agreeing to be "exploited" at minimum wage jobs in order to supplement my student loans.
However to make a blanket statement that everything he will have in the future was straight up earned or that he didn't have breaks not available to everyone he will know in his 40s is comical at best. Should people be jealous or envious of his position in the future, no, but they probably will be. However, he should be honest in his reflection of any opportunities he may or may not have had along the way that gave him a leg up.
Again, not trying to discourage or call out flanboy, I just don't agree with your assertion.
I'm debating whether or not to spend and ask for a bailout? I think my generation is probably some of the least responsible, and if that's the case, the odds of getting help from the government are pretty big.
I want to attend graduate school. Can't decide to save up for it or take a student loan and wait for the inevitible bail out.
The only problem I see with getting bailed out is having your credit rating shot. But then again, the only thing you really need credit for would be a mortgage. I could use the 200K bailout from the government to buy a house in cash perhaps?
I'm not sure what the rules are.
Made, pathetic and true.
Don't worry about your credit score, I have a funny feeling once Fed reserves start flooding the market credit scores will be relative, and we have millions of former homeowners who just decimated their credit.
Relative to someone with a $400K loan writeoff on their credit, I imagine a $5K revolving payment being late looks silly.
Don't worry about your credit score, I have a funny feeling once Fed reserves start flooding the market credit scores will be relative, and we have millions of former homeowners who just decimated their credit.
Relative to someone with a $400K loan writeoff on their credit, I imagine a $5K revolving payment being late looks silly.
Pretty much:incubus said: Made, pathetic and true.
Don't worry about your credit score, I have a funny feeling once Fed reserves start flooding the market credit scores will be relative, and we have millions of former homeowners who just decimated their credit.
Relative to someone with a $400K loan writeoff on their credit, I imagine a $5K revolving payment being late looks silly.
-The longer we have high unemployment, the bigger the case for 'helping' my generation. Assuming the economy recovers, the next generation will end up carrying us. It may be to my advantage to wait for that help.
-I don't see the current economic environment going away any time soon. I'm aiming for B-School in 3-5 years. I think I can get a student loan at a nice low rate before interest rates rise.
-As long as we keep on printing, we might be able to print our way out of debt. If the economy recovers, inflation goes up, and interest rates rise, my real debt is lowered. I can also then ask for a wage increase because of the higher inflation.
Too good to be true?
Well there's a bubble in higher education. I'd say if you're going to graduate school to acquire marketable skills, go for it regardless of the bailout. America needs skilled productive people to pick up the tab for Hope N' Change and other boondoggles similarly situated and providing all of the "disenfranchised" their "rights". If you're going to graduate school in pursuit of a PhD in "Human Studies" or equivalent, simple answer: Leverage yourself to the hilt and demand your right to a bailout after you realize your PhD in Human Studies has left you unqualified to compete in the productive private sector.made to trade said:
I'm debating whether or not to spend and ask for a bailout? I think my generation is probably some of the least responsible, and if that's the case, the odds of getting help from the government are pretty big.
I want to attend graduate school. Can't decide to save up for it or take a student loan and wait for the inevitible bail out.
The only problem I see with getting bailed out is having your credit rating shot. But then again, the only thing you really need credit for would be a mortgage. I could use the 200K bailout from the government to buy a house in cash perhaps?
I'm not sure what the rules are.
Seriously, since you invest it's highly unlikely you'd be pursuing a fluff degree so I'd guess you're in a hunt for marketable skills. That in itself renders you ineligible for a bailout.
I say get a masters in engineering, so you'll be better equipped to compete against the equivalent educated Chinese engineer who earns $250 a month, while affording tax incentives for US multinationals....you have a fighting chance, really, now go take out that loan.
Lol, I can't go that fast. I'm planning for the GMAT in December 2013. I'm already signed up for another test this December and if I pass this one, I'm taking the next level in June. I'm not big into engineering so I'm aiming for energy finance or financial mathematics.incubus said: I say get a masters in engineering, so you'll be better equipped to compete against the equivalent educated Chinese engineer who earns $250 a month, while affording tax incentives for US multinationals....you have a fighting chance, really, now go take out that loan.
Too bad time goes by so slowly, I just want to get it done with.
I'm a typical microwave generation guy. My impatience has also cost me in trading too, so I jsut have to tell myself to slow down. If I lose today, I feel like I have to make it back today. Not a good idea.
incubus said: I say get a masters in engineering, so you'll be better equipped to compete against the equivalent educated Chinese engineer who earns $250 a month, while affording tax incentives for US multinationals....you have a fighting chance, really, now go take out that loan.
My (systems)engineer friend makes just under 40k a year. Most people around here make 8-12 dollars an hour. Gram crackers are 5.50$a normal sized box, small thing of chips 2.29$, gas 3.70$/gl, 4 'AA' batteries 5.99$ I could go on, my point is how can anyone save in this environment?
You must Log In to post to this forum.
Not a member? Register Now to …
- See what other traders are doing
- Make your own trades public
- Share your thoughts on a trade
- Join or start a group
- Connect with like-minded traders
